ASP.NET MVC Framework - Demo App by Scott Guthrie

on November 13th, 2007 at 3:04pm , , 8 responses

Scott Guthrie is going to present a demo application using the ASP.NET MVC Framework.

First episode is here: http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2007/11/13/asp-net-mvc-framework-part-1.aspx

 

Very interesting. I can already see four things that my current VS2005/MonoRail/AspView/IIS5-6 stack lack.

  1. I do not have a project template, so setting up a new project take a bit longer than clicking "new MVC project".
  2. I do not have default rewrite rules.
  3. I cannot use Server Controls.
  4. Web Designer support when doing views is not too good. Also, layouts are not treated as MasterPages by the IDE

Sounds bad?

Well:

  1. Since I am not at kinder garden, I do not "play" with setting up new projects. When I start a new project, it would probably last for quite some time. So the time it takes me to copy&paste a minimal web.config, setup a few lines in global.asax.cs, add references and create Controllers and Views folders, costs me about 5 minutes of the global project costs.
    I can live with that.
  2. Shame. However, I can add them to my initial web.config/global.asax.cs files that I use as templates for new projects. Again - one-time cost, and not a price-i one.
  3. I do not want to use those. Didn't use them even when I was doing WebForms. I'm happy enough with ViewComponents, SubViews and ViewFilters, and I can easily use any cool 3rd party JS controllers (YUI/Dojo/jQuery/ExtJs/Moo/You-Name-It)
  4. Again - I do not trust WYSIWYG generated markup. It might be good enough for the texts on my personal blog (dear Windows Live Writer - can't you <br /> instead of <br>? what's the deal). It is definitely not good enough for any production level web site.

So - all the downsides are taken care of.

 

Plus, the stack I use is being used in production environment by gazillion people (ok, AspView is not that common, but the ViewEngine is just 5% of the whole stack, and it's the rock solid part anyway). It is working with .NET 2.0 so I need not convince clients to go for installing .NET 3/3.5 on their shared hosting solution, and since it's open-source, I can tweak stuff for my needs without the need to wait for a hotfix/ServicePack that might never appear, if not too late.

 

And if I'm not enough of a jerk for ranting like that, I'm going to try (if I'd have enough time) to put up a sample application using MonoRail/AspView similar to Scott's, but this time, you would actually be able get the bits and run it on your machines.

 

Stay tuned.

Justice~! Justice~! on November 13th, 2007 at 3:12pm
I don't think anyone is arguing here that Monorail is rad, but I certainly wouldn't be arguing for MVC on the basis on the four drawbacks you described. I think this is at the root of a more important movement, and especially in terms of wider-spread adoption this is a fantastic move.You should come see my presentation, Ken! Go sell a kidney or something so you can attend!
Ken&#32;Egozi Ken Egozi on November 13th, 2007 at 3:36pm
Don't get me wrong.ASP.NET MVC is a great thing.It might help the majority to adopt better approaches for coding web apps.Hey - it's good for me. I'd have less people coming for help with their crappy WebForms code. And about the kidney - I'm afraid it might be enough for catching a flight to Cyprus, and admitting into a local Taverna, rather than a flight to Canada + admission + Day Offs
Marco Marco on November 13th, 2007 at 7:10pm
I wonder how the asp.net mvc framework will handle the FormHelper functionality..
Joe&#32;Cheng&#32;[MSFT] Joe Cheng [MSFT] on November 14th, 2007 at 4:43am
FYI, Windows Live Writer has generated XHTML-style markup since a couple of betas ago :)
Ben Ben on November 14th, 2007 at 7:03pm
Good idea Ken, look forward to seeing what you come up with.
Aaron&#32;Jensen Aaron Jensen on November 14th, 2007 at 10:20pm
It's reasons like these that MonoRail doesn't have much adoption. I don't think we should embrace the attitude of "well, sure I could do that, I just need to twiddle this bit, copy and paste this, and spin around 4 times." I think that people need to see these things as *good* things and put energy into emulating them rather than saying they don't need them.
Ken&#32;Egozi Ken Egozi on November 15th, 2007 at 4:58am
1. MonoRail do have project templates for NVelocity and Brail projects.I did not create one for AspView, just like I did not create any kind of an installer, and that's because I never found time for that, and since it does not bring any real value (as in - more features).If anyone likes to add an installer / project template - go ahead, I'll be more than happy to have it in the repository.2. same. the project template would have those.3. Server Controls are just too alien to MR framework. However, you can mix in the WebFormsViewEngine for selected views if you must.4. Designers - I can't see a way to support that without hacking into the SDK and I really do not like doing that. especially not the 2005 one.I might look into the VS 2008 Shell option though, but not too soon
Jeffrey&#32;Palermo Jeffrey Palermo on November 15th, 2007 at 3:21pm
I'm definitely looking forward to this.






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